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113417-request-why-people-left-easy-fix
Content ---- ---- ---- You don't need to do dungeons for pre-raid loot with or without those rules. It takes 10 seconds to craft an items. The difference is making it worthwhile to run adventures or dungeons at all. Adventures and dungeons are in no way as it is a form of end game. It's pure farming and there's no link between the amount of work put in and the reward. Please tell me what your usual day of Wildstar looks like. (dailies?pvp because you want the extra points?AH farming?) I'm pretty sure your usual day doesn't include running a bunch adventures or dungeons for fun and loot. For a lot of people that played Wildstar, it used to be. | |} ---- That's why you can craft your pre-raid gear and not farm it in Dungeon. Now the question is: How to make dungeon the end-game for small party. Did I express myself wrong? Seem like I was totally agreeing with you, and now yo uare coming back full speed to get my head. | |} ---- Actually, it does. That's the majority of what I'm doing if I'm not in raid... adventure/dungeon farming. I log in, do my dailies that take up about an hour, then spend the day in adventures/dungeons until raid time. Is that really so mind blowing? But hey, if you don't actually want to play a game and wish you could just say, "Look how awesome I am!" then I guess your rationale works... | |} ---- ---- ---- It takes two to three weeks worth of eldan data just to be able to start making the Best crafted gear; not ten seconds. There are also no guaranteed crafts; there is always RNG That's a lovely opinion, but a lot of guilds do just that.... | |} ---- ---- To be fair, if that is in fact what OP was suggesting it's simply a false argument. If you aren't going to raid why run adventures and dungeons? If you aren't going to raid why run shiphands and craft? If you aren't going to raid why level your character? If you aren't going to raid why play wildstar? The above are all non-sequiturs; Lots of folks enjoy the adventures and dungeons; and there are fixes in the pipeline to make more paths fun in adventures. The loot for them is scaled pretty well; lots of BiS gear is only available through vets. | |} ---- ---- ---- ^ | This statement is not true. At the risk of feeding this post I've decided to reply. I have canvassed opinions from all my friends who stopped playing Wildstar, and the main reasons were It's summer It's too hard PvP is too much of a massive AoE-fest Dungeon Groups disbanding as soon as Gold is lost. True Story. That last point indicates the solution is the *opposite* of what you are suggesting (why the Devs changed it in fact). You'd like some more epic loot at teh expense of reliable dungeon groups, sure I hear that. Should you get it? Not in my opinion. | |} ---- You can now get one-time amp points from Gold STV/KV and one-time ability points from Gold Skullcano/SSM. There's your incentive. | |} ---- I usually like your post, but man, that's the dumbest stuff you ever said lol. Raiding ain't Wildstar. Raiding is something to do in Wildstar, among a lot of other thing. Raiding are meant for player that like having 20-40 people in a group dedicated 3time a week to kill boss. Not everyone want that. And that's perfectly fine. Dungeon was meant to be a end game for smaller community that prefer 5man content. Don't take my word for it, go watch some dev stream and shiit. | |} ---- Well, that's not exactly true. Some class / spec combos can use perfect crafted gear as BiS (IIRC the class / spec with the most crafted BIS gear is DPS Engi with 6 / 12 gear slots having perfect crafted gear pieces as pre-raid BiS). But a lot of classes / specs have very little to no crafted BiS slots. For example Heal spec medics only have 1/12 gear slot that has a crafted BiS ( Adventus chest), DPS medic has 0/12. Perfectly min/maxed crafted gear can be BiS, but by and large vets are still the greatest source for BiS gear pre-raids. | |} ---- Noki, that WAS my point, see these portions of that post you quoted: I provided those as examples of why those types of arguments are NOT VALID. Best, Naz | |} ---- And that's what I was saying: Carbine is making it happen. Jeez, what's wrong with everyone today. I"m gonan try 1 more time to express myself in a clear fashion: 1-Raid are nice, very nice. But not everyone wants 20man content. So what we tell those person: do something else. And that's fine. We just needed more incentive to run 5man content. 2-Yes, like I said, Carbine know this issue. They are making change. Be patient, and 5man content will be a thing. Some are already there like Krakanu says. Good point man. 3-I just told the OP that if he don't want to raid, or can't, because he prefer 5man content, to wait a bit and let 5man content to evolve into something he like to see as his end game | |} ---- OOOOOHHHHHHH. Gotcha !!! allright, see, I knew I liked your post! sorry for my misunderstanding. Maybe I'm the one who need a break from the forum. The week have been too long. | |} ---- I and my guild run Adventures because they're something relatively quick and fun to do together. I / We also run dungeons because it's a nice relaxing way to experience raid like content with only 5 people. Easy to get together, takes an hour, two if we have new people learning things, and is rather fun. Though I'm an old man now, as opposed to my all nighters in MC & BWL when I was younger, and enjoy some short content to play with friends that's still challenging. | |} ---- Anecdotes are cool but don't really represent anything. I know for a fact that if you queued for a Dungeon/Adventure it was pretty abysmal. My guild only ran STL for gloves and Crimelords for Primal farming. That's about it. No one really wanted any gear from them and didn't find them particularly exciting. No one has touched SM since getting attuned. | |} ---- I'm not presenting it as fact, and you're right it doesn't. But your statement is also false because people didn't stop, some of us still do, so it's not a fact... I don't queue for Dungeons / Adventures becuase I go with guildies regularly so I wouldn't know. Seems like you're just as anecdotal as I... | |} ---- Oh yeah it's an anecdote but fact remains, gear(the proverbial carrot on a stick in most MMO's in the last 10 years) is the main factor for most players repeating any content. If no one needs the gear, they generally stop running them and level alts or just play something else until raid day. | |} ---- Then it's a pretty good thing they're addressing itemization in the upcoming drop :) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- You know I was writing up a big ol' response addressing each of these points and then I decided screw it... Their issues with the game are very subjective and seems to me they just didn't like the flavour of the game. If Carbine adjusted the game to all those points to make those people happy they'd make me unhappy and drive me away. So chalk it up to the game not being for them. | |} ---- Amen! Preach brother Jeff, Preach! | |} ---- ---- "I am really, really bad at this game and probably shouldn't be playing it, but make it easier for me anyway! ...now to find a way to get my nose even further up my own bum..." This is what needs to happen. Please don't let easy mode raids ever happen in this game. 10 man content on par vith vet dungeon difficulty is something I can see most people getting behind, casual and hardcore alike. Does that mean eliminating 20 and 40 man content? No! And truth be told, if 10 mans come at the expense of real raid content, I'd rather not see them at all. | |} ---- ---- A dungeon would be quicker to run and not on a week lockout. Something you could run in under 2 hours once everyone is geared appropriately and knows the fights. It's something you could organize easily like you do current dungeons (grab your 9 best buddies in guild chat and go!) rather than something you'd have to schedule out like raids. The benefits to this would be that it gives raiders something else to do when they are not raiding, and casuals something to work on after dungeons. The fights could be a little more interesting than a 5 man because you have more to work with, but still aimed at the skill level of the 5 man dungeon runner. Also, since I assume Carbine is working on both dungeons and raids for the future, they could simply take their next dungeon and tune it for 10 rather than five. This prevents them from taking resources away from 20/40 man raids to keep the upper crust happy and engaged. Personally, I'd actually really like to see a 10 man raid like Karazhan in the game, but I can understand the objections and why a week lockout 10 man might not be good when there is 20/40 content already. It seems to me that a shorter dungeon styled instance tuned for 10 people would be a better fit for the game. | |} ---- There were lots of raids like this in WoW. Malygos, Sartharion, Onyxia, Vault of Archavon, etc. were all short and had few bosses (or just one!). I don't get the distinction between raid/dungeon once you have 10 or more people. It really seems like you're just arguing semantics. Really the only thing that separates them is whether or not its on a weekly lockout, and if its designed for 10 people it probably should be on a weekly lockout. Don't get me wrong, I loved tossing together groups for these raids in WoW, and I'd love for Wildstar to have something similar, but call them what they are, raids. Just because something is called a raid doesn't mean you have to schedule it out and make tons of plans ahead of time. I formed lots of spur-of-the-moment pug groups for the WoW raids I listed above. | |} ---- ---- I'm just telling you guys the reality of the situation. Also, you are one of those people who equate Casual with skill. The only difference between Hardcore and Casual is time, not Skill. I dunno how many times that needs to be explained. Notice how Slyjeff comments got likes but yours didn't? That's because he understands the argument. You should be more like him and less condescending and presumptuous. We are also asking for the same thing. Asking for 10 is asking for perceived "easier" Raid Management. We both want the game to be somewhat more accommodating. Only one of us is being a dick about it. (hint: it's you) | |} ---- Feel free to turn "Normal" into "10 mans" in my post. My point still stands. The Casual Experience extends into End Game now. Carbine needs to adapt. Throwing you a like although, I'm not a fan of 10 mans but we agree to a certain degree. They need to make a move. | |} ---- ---- ---- I think 10man content would be an amazing addition to the game. Not only because it closes the huge distance between 5-->20mans but because with the combat of WS they can do miracles in a 10man scale content. I don't care if they are called dungeons or raids or whatever else. The only thing i would really HATE to see is same versions with different numbers. If this is going to happen, then i prefer staying as it is now. | |} ---- ---- 10/20/40 makes infinitely more sense than 10/25 man. Here you can put 2 10 man groups together to form a 20 man, and 2 20 mans to form a 40 man. In WoW it was a pain in the *** trying to go from 10 to 25 man or 25 to 10. You either had to PUG 5 additional people or sit 5 people. What a nightmare. I will agree it shouldn't be a 10/20/40 man version of the same content though. A raid should be designed with one group size in mind, period. Balancing a boss for 20 players, and then changing it to accommodate 10 is just asking for imbalances. People always complained about 10 mans being easier/harder than 25 mans in WoW, but if the raids are totally different, you really can't draw the same comparisons. I kinda wish they would just put the new world bosses in their own mini-raid or something. While its fun going to do Scorchwing every now and then, it really sucks when you form up a group for it only to find that he's dead or that the other faction already killed him. And when somebody sees that he's up, it feels like you HAVE to do it now rather than whenever you want to because you don't always have the opportunity. Also his loot is garbage. Has anyone ever got an upgrade from a world boss? I think the devs feel forced to give him terrible loot since everybody gets an item instead of the standard 3-5 boss drops or however many it is. I feel like it would be a lot more fun if they gave him the full "You're a real raid boss, Scorchwing!" treatment. | |} ---- Feeling you on this, because right now I'm sitting on the forums rather than playing the game because I'm waiting on SW. Someone said he was a bout to pop, so now I'm wasting time. I hate NOT playing the game. | |} ---- ---- Nope. The very thing that pushed me to the red zone of rage was the "Ferris-wheel" bug, I could log in for a week. It's not the patience of people, it has everything to do with bugs, broken mechanics for some, maybe even the end game. I can't name one thing, because it's multiple things. One thing it isn't, it's not lack of patience... in fact that damn insulting.... considering I'm still here with everything falling apart. | |} ---- ---- I said it was me. I also said multiple reasons why people leave I also said I am around because of patience despite having to deal with several of these issues. | |} ---- This is my fear of 10 mans right here. I wish WoW had just dropped to 20 mans instead of doing Mirror 10s. The minute they did that 10 mans became the Format. Clearing them feels good but not EPIC! Carbine could probably go the Trion(Rift) Route and put 10 mans on the progression track. I dunno if that would work here though. That would require some nerfing with the introduction of new Tiers so people have a shot at keeping up. They would also need to make a new introductory 10man Raid that gets people ready for GA. | |} ---- ---- ----